I dreaded going until I discovered girls. Then lunch time was fun to cruise and look at and occasionally talk to girls from other congregations. When I got older I learned to post up in one spot with my buddies and we just watched all the pretty girls go by, stopping them and talking to them, or them stopping and talking to us. It was a good time.
Incognigo Montoya
JoinedPosts by Incognigo Montoya
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19
Conventions
by Holden Caufield inwhat did you make of the conventions i used to dread them.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6bhlhtbaos.
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Incognigo Montoya
Definitely people that I miss. But my closest friends aren't witnesses, and they accept me for who I am, faults and all. They've been there for all of my major life events, regardless of how long it's been since we talked last, or what I've been up to. And I've learned to be their friend, unconditionally, for life.
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Dysfunctamentalism
by Incognigo Montoya inin reading through many posts over the last few months, i have started to form a viewpoint towards at least some of those witnesses/witness families, who are abusive and overzealous in their thinking.. arguably, many, if not all here, would say all pimi witnesses are overzealous in their thinking, but i sort of disagree with that.
without revealing too much about myself, my parents who are still in (father long time elder, mother regular pioneer), i consider stable and balanced in their views.
while i was shunned to a degree, after being disfellowshipped (they didn't go out to dinner or the movies with me or socialize with me publicly or very often privately, they didn't attend my wedding) they still spoke to me on the phone every few months, as i checked in on them and let them know i was doing alright (i moved out of state in my late teens).
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Incognigo Montoya
Absolutely agree with you, wasanelderonce. If I look hard enough, I can find dysfunction in my family, and could choose to hold a grudge. I suppose anyone can, though I've never lived their lives. I point out specifics in my life, based on the complaints, and shortcomings others have pointed to in their own childhood, brought up by witness parents. Also, I see my childhood and parents behavior, through the filter of having been a parent and raising children of my own. I didn't raise them as witnesses, though I raised them with some of the ideals, structure, and beliefs that I was raised with, only without regular meeting attendance (we went rarely and sporadically). In hindsight I created dysfunction of my own, by demanding much of the same, without a solid foundation, or organization, for my children to conform with. I regret that, very much. But that is a whole different story.
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Dysfunctamentalism
by Incognigo Montoya inin reading through many posts over the last few months, i have started to form a viewpoint towards at least some of those witnesses/witness families, who are abusive and overzealous in their thinking.. arguably, many, if not all here, would say all pimi witnesses are overzealous in their thinking, but i sort of disagree with that.
without revealing too much about myself, my parents who are still in (father long time elder, mother regular pioneer), i consider stable and balanced in their views.
while i was shunned to a degree, after being disfellowshipped (they didn't go out to dinner or the movies with me or socialize with me publicly or very often privately, they didn't attend my wedding) they still spoke to me on the phone every few months, as i checked in on them and let them know i was doing alright (i moved out of state in my late teens).
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Incognigo Montoya
I appreciate your input and thoughts, kh_pri. Dont get me wrong, I agree, it's not a normal thing to shun a child. Not attending my wedding hurt, even though I played it off and moved on. I am not one to harbor resentment. Shit happens, I move on. A great many out there in the world have had it far, far worse than me.
My parents have my respect though, because of the people they are. Even though they are faithful witnesses, they are also independent, pro active, and logical. My father found a way to not only provide for his family, but also planned for a future, in case the end didn't come before retirement. He and my mother live comfortably well on his income since his retirement. He did this while working a part time job, so he had time to devote to us, his family, and to his responsibilities as a jw. We never had a lot, but we never were without. We took family vacations at least once a year (and quite often more than once or even twice a year) that weren't tied into a convention, or other JW activities, (though on sundays we would consider the wt together). We always had plenty. It wasnt usually new, or the latest thing, but it was always good. Their love, balanced view. and frugality gave us a great upbringing that as an adult, I can appreciate. I dont want to say much more, or get too specific, but compared to some of the things I've seen and heard, my folks were as balanced as a witness in good standing could be.
Now, that said, after having gotten reinstated, and attending some conventions, saw changes, and the org tightening their grasp on the r&f. I was at the 2016 convention and saw the drama where the mother tearfully ignored her disfellowshipped daughters texts and phone calls. My immediate thoughts were, how horrible that mother would feel if that text was her daughters last plea for help. It wasnt loving, and was in fact horrible to think about. I knew I could never do that to my own children, FOR ANY REASON. As much as I loved my parents, and as balanced as I knew them to be, I know there is a line, if crossed, where they would completely shun me. This is exactly why I use my alias, and am careful about what i say, even here. I get disagreeing with your child, even disapproving of their actions or lifestyle. I can even understand a parent being disgusted by their childs actions, and hating who their child has become. But I cannot understand not being there for them. Not showing them love, regardless of their actions. It might have to be tough love, but attention is love, none the less. To deprive ones own child of love and attention is inhuman.
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The Dinosaurs.
by I Faded Twice inwas anyone else taught that dinosaurs even old t rex was a vegetarian ?
i remember as a kid my parents contradicting what school taught.
they reasoned that meat eating was not allowed before the flood.
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Incognigo Montoya
Not to derail the conversation, but speaking of dinosaurs, check this one out. Take a minute and look at the pictures! Incredible!!!
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The Dinosaurs.
by I Faded Twice inwas anyone else taught that dinosaurs even old t rex was a vegetarian ?
i remember as a kid my parents contradicting what school taught.
they reasoned that meat eating was not allowed before the flood.
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Incognigo Montoya
As a child I was enthralled with dinosaurs. I was never discouraged by my parents, from thinking that TRex was a meat eater, as were other dinos. I do however, remember hearing and being taught by WT that prior to the flood no animals consumed meat. I remember questioning this, in regards to carnivorous Dinosaurs. My mothers very balanced reply was, we just don't know.
But we definitely do know now:
https://www.livescience.com/22809-diinosaur-gut-contents.html
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14
Dysfunctamentalism
by Incognigo Montoya inin reading through many posts over the last few months, i have started to form a viewpoint towards at least some of those witnesses/witness families, who are abusive and overzealous in their thinking.. arguably, many, if not all here, would say all pimi witnesses are overzealous in their thinking, but i sort of disagree with that.
without revealing too much about myself, my parents who are still in (father long time elder, mother regular pioneer), i consider stable and balanced in their views.
while i was shunned to a degree, after being disfellowshipped (they didn't go out to dinner or the movies with me or socialize with me publicly or very often privately, they didn't attend my wedding) they still spoke to me on the phone every few months, as i checked in on them and let them know i was doing alright (i moved out of state in my late teens).
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Incognigo Montoya
In reading through many posts over the last few months, I have started to form a viewpoint towards at least some of those witnesses/witness families, who are abusive and overzealous in their thinking.
Arguably, many, if not all here, would say all pimi witnesses are overzealous in their thinking, but I sort of disagree with that. Without revealing too much about myself, my parents who are still in (father long time elder, mother regular pioneer), I consider stable and balanced in their views. While I was shunned to a degree, after being disfellowshipped (They didn't go out to dinner or the movies with me or socialize with me publicly or very often privately, they didn't attend my wedding) they still spoke to me on the phone every few months, as I checked in on them and let them know I was doing alright (I moved out of state in my late teens). I would stop in and see them once a year or so, when I was coming through. While at times there was a slight bit of tension in the air, they were always loving to me. We spoke at length about what was going on in my life and what was going on in theirs, as well as my siblings lives. They took a genuine interest in me and what I was doing in my life, secularly, and personally. Once, my father hugged me tightly and through misty eyes, told me how proud he was of me.
....anyway, getting too personal now. Point is, though I knew our relationship was strained and had boundaries. I never felt unloved, or that they wouldn't be there for me if and when I needed them. In fact I know, because they were there for me in a moment of crisis, despite my being df'd.
My family wasnt dysfunctional. I know them to be reasonable, loving, people. Now, I also know if I were to start pointing out negative things about witnesses, and their beliefs, or saying hateful things in regard to the organization, they would most likely cease communicating with me, though, once again, I still believe if my life were in crisis, they would be there for me.
My experience differs from many experiences that others have related here, and on podcasts/YouTube. I can understand, given those experiences, why some are very angry. I would be too, in their shoes. But I can't discount how much of their bad childhood was due to a dysfunctional family dynamic, that would've still been bad, had their parents not been witnesses. Don't get me wrong, the fundamentalist ideals of the JW seem to draw dysfunctional people to their ranks. But then again, so do other fundamentalist ideologies. Which is where I come up with Dysfunctamentalism.
I think there are a lot of good people who were/are drawn into, or trapped (born into) the JW cult. But It would seem that there are a number of dysfunctional individuals who've used the cults idealogies to thrive and perpetuate their already maladjusted mentality. Those born into it, or juveniles pulled into it by their parents, are then sucked into a perfect storm of dysfunction and fundamentalism, coming out the other side, damaged to whatever degree that volatile mixture bore out.
For someone like me, it was difficult to recognize that. I wasn't abused. I knew no one who was abused (though I'm aware now that I very well could have, and just never realized it). To hear these stories, they seem impossible, unbelievable. Yet, they are real. Many bad, some horrific, all inexcusable.
So then, to what degree does dysfunction play in a familys outcome, and what degree does the cult play?
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8
Crisis of conscience
by Incognigo Montoya inso i have not read it yet.
where would be the best place to get my hands on a copy?.
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Incognigo Montoya
So I have not read it yet. Where would be the best place to get my hands on a copy?
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My brother is shunning me (but he's not a Witness)
by john.prestor ini didn't know where to post this but it's been on my mind and i'm looking for support and advice from people who know what it's like being shunned.
i was raised in a fundamentalist baptist church, so what i'm experiencing is a little different than most posters on this site.
i've been out of that church for years, and my brother's been out for a while too.
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Incognigo Montoya
Let's call it, Dysfunctamentalism: an affliction of the dysfunctional who is drawn to, and overzealously adheres to, a fundamentalist ideology.
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My brother is shunning me (but he's not a Witness)
by john.prestor ini didn't know where to post this but it's been on my mind and i'm looking for support and advice from people who know what it's like being shunned.
i was raised in a fundamentalist baptist church, so what i'm experiencing is a little different than most posters on this site.
i've been out of that church for years, and my brother's been out for a while too.
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Incognigo Montoya
To Amelia Ashtons point; There are a great many Disfunctional families in the world. Their dysfunction has nothing to do with religion, but a great many of them seem drawn to cults and fundamentalist groups. This only succeeds in magnifying the dysfunction. Crazy family is crazy family. He doesn't want you in his life? Best to count your blessings and walk away.